Ep. 80 - Bishop Roulette (Sandy pt.1)

Welcome to the Mormon to Medium podcast, where today we have a special guest, Sandy Whitaker. A good friend of ours, Sandy shares her inspiring and challenging journey, from her upbringing in the LDS church to her tumultuous marriages, leaving the church, and finding herself. Raised in a devout Mormon family and married in the temple, Sandy faced numerous hardships, including domestic violence, a difficult divorce, and a second husband who ultimately betrayed her. Despite these trials, Sandy found the courage to leave her unhappy situations, seek therapy, and set boundaries. Her story also includes the harrowing experience of dealing with her daughter's molestation by her second husband, which led to a painful but necessary legal battle. After navigating these profound challenges, Sandy describes her path towards healing, finding personal happiness, and ultimately leaving the church while maintaining strong, loving relationships with her family. Join us for this powerful and emotional episode as Sandy recounts her journey to self-discovery and empowerment.

Transcript

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 0:22

Welcome to the Mormon to Medium podcast. Today we have a special guest and we are super excited to introduce her to you. I'm Sandy Whitaker.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 0:32

Hi,

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 0:32

Hello everybody. Hey,

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 0:36

so Sandy is a really good friend of ours, and she has a really interesting story of the things that she's been through. You know, all of us have different journeys that we're going through, and it's all a journey back to self, right? Well, Sandy's dug through some pretty deep holes in her life and she's also left the church. She's going to, she's going to tell us about her journey. So go ahead, Sandy.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 0:55

Well, I don't know where you want us to start. So I was born and raised in the LDS church. My parents my brothers are very, very active. The Mormons, they're very, very active. My mother still serves weekly in the temple. My brothers also serve their families. Are very. Have been very active. So my entire life I was raised in the church. My first marriage, I got married in the temple. Now we had, you know, kind of been naughty the way, you know, kids are when we were 19 and were unable to go through the temple first. So when we had my daughter two years later, we went to the temple, we were all sealed and, you know, of course now I'm thinking everything is going to be roses and dandy cause. You know, we did all the things, but I don't, I don't know exactly how we did not get along. I, I was very codependent. I kept thinking I could fix everything I could, you know, all I had to do was be better if I were kinder, if I were smarter, if I were thinner, if I were prettier, if I were shorter, if I, you know, and no matter what I tried, I felt like. I was never good enough.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 2:07

Joe, it seems like, it seems like a lot of women have that, right? Like where they're like, Oh my God, I can take this guy and I can fix him. You know, he has these flaws, but I'm going to fix him.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 2:18

Yeah. And I don't, I don't think that he really needed to be fixed in the way that I felt that he should be fixed. And so he resented that of course, because nobody wants to be fixed. When. They don't feel like there's anything wrong. But long story short, we, our marriage lasted for 16 years and four children. And at the end when we got divorced it, it it was weird. I didn't, I didn't marry well, but I divorced worse. So my divorces have been ugly as far as you just. You know, people think, Oh, in, in Utah, you know, moms get it all. And no, that's not true, which is fine. And, and, you know, he felt that he needed to, you know, get what he wanted and he fought hard for it. And all I wanted was my children which I did get. So, you know, that all worked out After our divorce I was angry and bitter. And at one point my Bishop called me in and said, you know, I have had this

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 3:20

wait, isn't that, that happens though, right? I mean, a lot of times people get divorced. They're not all these amicable, Oh, we're still best friends. We're great. Co parents. Sometimes. Things get ugly and it sounds like yours got a little bit ugly. So.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 3:35

Yeah. And, and

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 3:36

I can see why you would be a little bitter.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 3:38

yeah, and my marriage was not great. I mean, I, there was, you know, I didn't know about it at the time I didn't accept it or, or understand it at the time, but you know, there was some domestic violence involved. And when I learned about, you know, what was happening and I didn't realize, you know, you can say no to certain things and you can, I don't know, I, I had to learn to how to set boundaries. I went to therapy for three years and. My therapist taught me how to set boundaries. And when I got those boundaries set and then the boundaries got crossed, then I finally felt the, the bravery, the whatever to say, okay, we're done. I don't need to live like this anymore. And so I left and Had him leave the home and, and the kids and I stayed and but my bishop called me in and was like, you know, you're very, very bitter. And so God has told me that because you're bitter, you, I need to take away your recommend. And I remember thinking, but that's the one place that I feel safe is to go to the temple. My parents worked there. I learned that that was your haven, that was your safety net. And all of a sudden I'm being told that because I'm bitter, I can't go.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 4:48

so just to clarify, when you talk, recommend you're talking about for the LDS temple, right?

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 4:54

Correct. Right. so you have it.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 4:56

isn't. Yeah.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 4:58

Right. Right. So I, I, and I was like, Oh, well, gee, you know, maybe I need to be better. I mean, I need to be a better person because if God said, I can't come see him, then, you know, maybe I am a terrible person. But at the same time, my husband went and found my ex husband went and found a different bishop and the bishop, uh, That he talked to was like, dude, yeah, you need to go to the temple and go and be. And my parents were having to see him at the temple. But yeah, I'm not allowed in because I'm angry and bitter. Why am I angry and bitter? Cause well, he can get in. I can't anyway. I think that was the beginning. of things. It took me a couple of years and I met another man and I was very active still. And we, we dated right. You know, I, we read our scriptures together. He taught my children, Isaiah. You know, we went to the temple once a week on a temple date. You know, there was no hanky panky before our marriage. We were so on. I did it by the book, the way the book says. And I prayed about it. I called his bishop. I called the state president. I met them. They told me what a nice guy he was and he was, you know, such a, we were just going to have the best life. My friends all liked him. My family liked him. Everybody liked him. And

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 6:16

mean by the book? Is,

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 6:18

of Mormon and the Bible and

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 6:20

book,

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 6:21

the Mormon book, and it tells you how to live your life. And it says, if you do these things, you know, you you're. Going to have a happy life. And so I, I literally followed the plan. I, I went to church. He came with me. We paid our tithing. We served in callings. We did all the things like, you know, we wore our garments. We did everything that we were supposed to do according to the plan. The LDS church. And so I was thinking, this is it, you know, the reason I had this unhappy marriage, you know, but God's going to now bless me and I'm going to have this wonderful marriage with this wonderful man. And he loves my kids. And he's, I mean, look at what he's doing for my kids. He's taking my kids shopping. He's doing all these wonderful things. He's spending all this time with my kids and buying them things. And I was like, wow, this is, this is what I put up with crap for.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 7:12

Sandy, can I back you up just for just a second? So there's some time that took place in between, right? So. From where the last bishop said, Hey, Sandy, you're bitty, a bitter, angry woman. You can't go to the temple to you going. Yeah, I found this new

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 7:28

True. So for a year. Yeah. So for Yeah, so no, so for a year I didn't have a recommend and then my bishop and I just kept working I kept, you know, he had me read the, the worst book of all time, the miracle of forgiveness and

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 7:43

Miracle of forgiveness. I was going to say that. Oh,

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 7:46

worst book of all time.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 7:49

Would that be this book?

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 7:52

that's the one. And it left me feeling broken. It left me feeling so broken that again, that it was my fault that my first marriage had failed. And so I worked so hard and, did all the things and I, you know, did all the, you know, callings and all the jobs. And my, my bishop called me back and he's like, Sandy, you know, it's time you can have your recommend back. And this is so great. And I'm like, finally. So I guess, yeah. So I started going to the temple and then that's kind of how and where I met my second husband. And I was like, there we go. You know, I'm back on track. God has forgiven me. I'm, I'm worthy again to be in his presence. So I'm, you know, I must be doing things right. So I married this man and I thought, okay, we're, we're golden. We are so golden. And you know, we built a house and we moved my kids from Cache Valley to Davis County. And I thought, Oh, My life is going to be a hundred percent and had a plan that we were going to go to the temple together and be sealed. But before I could do that, I had to have my first marriage. Basically it's a divorce in the temple, like a temple divorce. And I had to have that taken away. And so there's a bunch of paperwork, a bunch of paperwork. And so I started doing all the paperwork. You know, I wrote my letter, I wrote my letter to my Bishop. I wrote my letter to my first husband. I did all the paperwork and I. Handed the paperwork packet to my new husband, and he just didn't ever want to work on the paperwork. And I thought, well, you know, it's hard. And I kept making excuses and excuses. And so he never did his portion of the paperwork. And at the time, the church only allowed you to have a temple divorce as a woman. If you were going to be getting married in the temple again to someone else, you can't just, I think it's different now, but at the time it was, you can't You're sealed. We're going to keep that ceiling. You're stuck there, no matter how you feel about that person. But that, you know, so

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 9:55

your eternal companion. Whether you like it or not.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 9:58

exactly. And so, I mean, and that was difficult for me because there was just, I didn't want that and I didn't want that person. And so I kept thinking, I've got to just hurry and get this paperwork done. Well, My second husband and I were only married for over four years. And during that last year, he kind of started to fall away from the church. He wasn't as active. And I thought, well, you know, he's going through a crisis. You know, we have all these kids in the house. He is not used to kids in the house. You know, his life has been uprooted and changed and things just started to kind of slowly. Disintegrate and my youngest started to have some behavioral issues difficulties. And she came to me one night and I had had the worst cold and I took it. It was my birthday actually. And I took some NyQuil to get to sleep cause I was so sick. And I don't do well with NyQuil. It knocked me out. And my My daughter came to me and she told me that my husband had touched her inappropriately. And I remember thinking, what, what did you just say? What? And I remember thinking, I don't think I heard you right. And she couldn't get me to wake up enough to hear her. And so I told her, I says, you know, I'll come sleep with you in your bed tonight. And we'll talk about it in the morning. And in the morning she was just like, you know what? Okay. I guess it was just a bad dream. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. And I was like, you know what? I had a shitty night. Like, and then I, so I had to put it aside because I thought it's the NyQuil talking. Like it has to be the NyQuil. And that was in February.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 11:41

Well, cause that's something that no one wants to believe

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 11:44

no, no. And I asked my husband and he was like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like I was out in the garage with my son. Like, what is she talking about? And I'm like, okay, Sandy, like you are up in the night. Like you must've dreamt you had bad dreams, right? She had a dream, got mixed up with you. Like, and to this day, I hate taking my quote. I hate being. Unable to clearly hear and think because bad stuff happens when you can't clearly think. And so that was in February and for the next 10 months he slowly groomed her and molested her more and more and more until Christmas time. And anyway, the, it all came out right after Christmas and I, you know, It was like, I asked him, I said, well, did what happened when she told me happened back in February? Was that real? And he said, yeah, that was real. And I said, well, how many times did that happen? And he's like, only twice, only twice. And I'm like, well, twice is too many. Like this can't, I can't, I have to leave. And so I just said, I'm just gonna scoop up my kids and leave. So to shorten the story, cause it is very long. I had called my Bishop to help me move out. And he's like, well, what's going on? You guys are a great couple. You're a great family. What's going on? I said, That's between him and his, and his heavenly father. Like that's not my business. And the Bishop was like, okay, but I really want to know. So he called me into his house and he had his counselor there. And so I told them, I told them everything. So then they called him in and apparently he also told them. And the one thing the Bishop did right was he did call the police. So I, I was

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 13:33

that's actually, yeah, that's a big switch from what typically happens when somebody goes to a Bishop. Usually it's, Hey, we've got to call Curt and McConkie and get legal advice before they ever

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 13:45

he actually reported it, but and then he helped me get out of the house and then, you know, make, well, he got him out of the house so that I could have time to gather my kids and my things and get out. So he did, he was very helpful at that first moment. And then. When the police got involved and we went to the CJC, the children's justice center, and we had our interviews there we found out that it had happened way more than the two times

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 14:12

Yeah,

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 14:12

and it had been going on for the full 10 months. And I was unaware and felt like a dirt bag because how do you miss that? How do you miss your child, your 10 year old child? Being harmed and allowing that to happen under your own roof. And I just, I, I missed it. And so when we got out and then we had, it took us a year, it took us two years to get him into court. And

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 14:40

you for just a minute?

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 14:40

yeah,

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 14:42

Sandy, don't beat yourself up on that. Okay.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 14:45

It's taken me a long time, but I don't, I no longer. I no longer own his evil. I, I, it took me a really long time and a lot more therapy to realize that his evil choices he pulled the wool over my eyes. I didn't turn a blind eye if that makes sense.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 15:04

right? Well, and that's the thing is when you found out about it, you addressed it and you started to take care of it. So, and that's a lot different than what happens in a lot of situations. So Sandy, you did what you had to do to protect your

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 15:17

and the CJC people.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 15:19

commendable.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 15:20

Yeah, the CJC people told me that there's only 5%, no 15% of women will report a spouse, and of that 15%, only 5% will take that to court. And of that 5%, only 1% will succeed in court. So the odds were super against us, and to tell you the truth, if I had to do it again. Probably wouldn't. It was just, it was hard. It was painful. I lost family. I lost friends and I felt like I lost my God. And so I, I felt very thrown to the wayside because, you know, they always say, well, things happen for a reason. Uh, no, it doesn't that happen for no reason that, that there's no reason for that. Like you can't tell me things, Oh, everything happens for a reason. Nope. Nope. I don't believe that. That

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 16:08

I have a question

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 16:09

evil. Yeah.

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 16:12

Could he have been doing this before long before he got to your daughter? And this was the ending point. This was the universe saying you're done

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 16:21

I, you know.

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 16:22

matched up with the right lady. That's going to put you in your place.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 16:24

I, I believe so. I mean, there's nobody else that says said or come forward. I did talk to one of his previous wives for a very short time. And she was surprised that it was a girl instead of a boy. She said that she had seen some things that would lead her to believe that he would molest a boy. There was some computer issues, some different things that she was aware of. And I don't have the details on that. So I don't, I don't want to get into that, but she did say that she was so sorry that that had happened to me. She didn't feel safe enough to come forward. Having seen his angry side, I can see why like I, to this day he's been in prison now for, I want to say it's 13 years. To this day, I don't feel safe with the idea of him being outside of those prison walls.

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 17:16

big win for your family though. And for everyone that's been a victim, cause guaranteed she's not the first.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 17:22

Well, and

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 17:22

was 1000%.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 17:23

and it's like I told her, I said, you know, even if we don't win we can protect his grandchildren and his nieces and things, other people, another woman and her children. If nothing else, maybe, you know, we could stop that from happening to anyone else. Because it, it

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 17:40

And Sandy, it's completely normal to feel. That fear and go, Oh my

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 17:48

Oh, he's scary. Well, he threatened, he told us we would die if we told and, but I was like, I can't not go forward. And back to my spiritual journey during this time, like I said, I was so impressed that the Bishop had actually called the police, but then after they, I felt like they wanted to wash their hands of me as well as him. Now, I don't know

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 18:13

or the police.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 18:13

the, the police, the, the, the police were great. The Bishop, I just felt like I didn't have a place anymore. Like, you know, like suddenly I, they, I didn't fit in their mold anymore. And so I thought, well, they got, they didn't want me teaching in primary. They didn't want me teaching in young women's. And those were the places that I'd always served before and always felt comfortable. And all of a sudden that was taken back.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 18:37

Oh, you're a single woman. Now you can't have a single lady do anything.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 18:41

Exactly. And that's it. That kind of got that. And then I don't know what punishment or, or when, like, I don't know anything about his church ness, but again, I got to the point where I didn't get my recommend back. And I thought, Really? Again? You're taking my recommend away again?

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 19:01

Because you were bitter again. What? I

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 19:02

because I, I had, I had turned my back on my family and my, that there's a question that says, is your relationship with your family in good standing? And apparently telling, turning your husband into the police and getting a divorce is not treating him well. So I wasn't a good mom. I wasn't a good wife.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 19:24

Wow.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 19:24

And so they said, Nope. You can't go back to the temple again. And so I said, okay. And I tried really hard and I worked really hard for the next eight years, well, let's see, six years. Cause when my daughter turned 18, I finally said, okay, look, I have worked my butt off. I have tried everything. I mean, I can't have the missionaries over into my house for dinner because I'm a single lady and how dare they, you know, send some poor two, two young men into my house, like, so I could buy them pizza. And give it to them, but I can't have them in my house for dinner, even though my children could have, I felt that they could have benefited from the priesthood in my home, but because I didn't have the priesthood in my home, I was not welcome to invite them into my home. If there were sister missionaries, I could have those over, but in Davis County, there wasn't a lot of options there. So there was just a lot of that tension where I was like, where do I fit in? Where do I fit in? And for the next six years, as I'd go to church, I would come away, feeling so angry. I had friends who would say, you know, like my, I had a son who ran away from home. I have this daughter who has all these problems. I had a truck run through my house and run over my kid. Like all these things just.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 20:35

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You can't just gloss over that.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 20:39

Well, there I was there. I was so, one day I had bought a home for my children. Finally, on my own, I, it's taken me a long time to get my feet underneath me. I lost a lot of money in that second divorce. He had taken out some different loans that I wasn't aware of that were against the equity in our home. And so when they, when we finally sold the house after a year, I got a check for 500. And I'm like, no, I had 80, 000 that I put in, like my money, like I sold my previous house. And they're like, yeah, but it's gone. There's nothing left. And of course, so my credit was shot and I had no money and had to start over, which I'm like, fine. I have my kids and they're safe and I don't care like moving on. So it took me a couple of extra years and I found the, I found some beautiful friends who work in the real estate and a mortgage company. Shout out to Janelle and. And so I had this beautiful home and my youngest and I had looked and looked for houses and she was like, I don't want to leave school. I don't want to leave my friends, but we found a house. She actually found it. She talked to the Bishop and he said, Hey, well, you should go talk to this family. I think they're going to put their house up for sale. And I'll be dinged. They were going to put their house up for sale and he sold it to me for my price. Like it was like, again, I thought, Oh wait, God's not so mad at me. He's given me this home. We're okay. And then I had literally barely unpacked and my neighbor was a high on spice and ran his truck into the edge of my house. And my daughter was in the basement and he came all the way into the house, like his truck plowed all the way in and his. Rear axles got hung up on the rebar and that's what stopped his forward motion.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 22:31

Wow.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 22:32

And so he, the truck was literally on top of her. So it tipped her down and the truck landed on top of her. And my son was coming into the room at that moment and this cloud of dust. And he was like, We're just happened and then anyway, so he yells up to me, you know, mom, call nine one one. And I'm like, what my first thought he'd just come home from the military from bootcamp. And my first thought was, oh my gosh, my son has blown up my house. What has he done? And so I come downstairs and there's this, Car, which actually was a truck. There was this car in my house. And so I'm calling nine one and I'm like there's a car in my house. I don't think it's supposed to be here and totally not. Okay. With what had just happened and had a little bit of anxiety. The police came, they got my daughter out. My son helped her get out of the house. And all I could say was, there's this, you know, effing car in my house, there's this effing car in my house. And finally, one of my friends who was a police officer kind of grabbed my face and go, Sandy, it's not a car. It's a truck. And it kind of shocked me back into reality and I'm like, all righty then. So anyway, so we got through that and you know, so my daughter's now had this, you know, horrible thing happened. Now she has a head injury. And my beautiful home that. God gave me is been destroyed. And then again, I'm starting to feel like, okay, you know, what have I done? Like, why does God hate me? Like he seems to be punishing me. And I never could find anyone to make me feel not being punished. And so I'd go to church and I'd come home angry because, you know, if you pray, if you pay your tithing, if you serve in your callings, the Lord is going to bless you. And I'm thinking, well, if this is the way the Lord blesses me, I'm good. I don't need any more blessings. You know, like this, this, is enough, you know? And so I was like, okay, well, maybe. So let's just hold off on the blessings. I don't, I don't want them anymore, but every Sunday it would take me a week that, you know, usually it's a week for that wonderful, calm feeling to kind of wear off and you need another refill in your bucket. Mine was the opposite. I would go to church and I would come away so angry and so hateful and they, you know, cause every time. Somebody would talk. It was, did you say your prayers? Well, God will bless you if you say your prayers. I'm like, I have been on my knees until I am bleeding on my knees. I have read the scriptures until my, until my

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 25:00

You did not go

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 25:01

And I'm just like, he did go there, was good. Perfect timing.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 25:07

Did I say that out loud?

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 25:09

Uh,

nannette_3_08-18-2024_143428: 25:09

Yes!

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 25:10

I didn't hear anything. So I just, I stopped going to church because it was making. Making my life harder. I did have a really good bishop at that time. He was very kind man he was going through cancer his own cancer journey and Even sick, he came and, you know, shoveled my walks and the Bishop before him, however, wasn't as great. And he was telling my son, you know, he's like, well, you know, if you're tattooed and you drink and you smoke and whatever that, you know, you're a bad person. And my son Argue with him and say, well, my older brother is all those things that he is the best man you'll ever know. And the Bishop's like, no, that can't be, you know, you can't be tattooed and drink and smoke and do drugs and be a good person. And my son was like, yeah, you can like, have you met my brother? He's really cool. He's like the best. And he was talking about, well, if you were a good person, you know, you get a job, you're gonna have a six figure income. And he said, well, my mom, she's a good person and she has a job. And she. can barely make ends meet. And basically, He made my son feel like his mother wasn't trying hard enough. And so my son was like, screw that. I'm not listening to somebody who's going to tell me that my mom isn't a good person. Cause she's a good person. And I, I had to thank him for that, you know, for standing up for me.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 26:33

Yeah,

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 26:34

So that Bishop and I, we didn't get along great. Cause when I would ask for help, he would say, well, you could have help. If you serve eight hours, A week at the Bishop's storehouse. And that includes you and your daughter and your son, the three of you at home. I'm like, that's 24 hours of service in a week. Like if I had 24 hours extra in a week, I'd get a second job. I'm like, I'm home alone. I have two kids. They've got activities and whatever. Like I just need a little help sometimes with a few bills or some food. Like I, I can do most of it, but I can't do it all. And he was, he refused to let me get help unless I did all this extra stuff. And I didn't want to hand out just a hand up just to get on top. And he was like, yeah, that's not how it works. You have to do the service. Well, luckily, like I said, he got released to this new guy gets put in. And I felt bad because like I said, he was going through his own cancer journey, but he said to me, he said, look, on those days that you can't make your gas payment. I want you to just bring it to me, just hand it to me and I'll just pay it. No, no questions asked. So every once in a while, and it didn't happen often, but there was some months that I couldn't quite make it. And I would just quietly hand him, My electric bill or my gas bill. And I just knew that it was going to get paid and then I could still get my groceries. And if I couldn't make my tithing, he didn't berate me and make me feel like a horrible human because I wasn't giving God all my money. And then, you know, does that

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 28:06

know, you'll hear it makes perfect sense. And you'll hear the term Bishop roulette a lot. Right? And this is like a classic example of it. You had some men who were so kind and so understanding and so connected to the spirit of God. Right? And others who just obviously they were not. It's, it's very much a situation of Bishop roulette as far as, you know, Who you had and what they did and how they reacted.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 28:34

Exactly. And so when I kept trying to like, not blame the church as a whole for the individual actions of these people, but it was getting harder and harder. And then, like I said, All the people in the ward would, you know, my life is so perfect because I said my prayers and, you know, I was reading the scriptures the other day and I got this and I'm like, I was reading scriptures and I got a headache. Like, where's my, where's my blessing for doing what I'm supposed to do? You know? And so finally I just said, you know what, I just need to step back. And the Bishop was great. And he said, you can step back. And the Relief Society president had a little harder time with it because she kept giving me people to go Visiting teaching and I'm like, no, I'm not going to. And she's like, well, we need you to go see these sisters. They need to learn from you. And I'm like, well, I haven't been to church for a while. I don't, I don't feel comfortable doing that. Then she gave me a companion that was also inactive. And I'm like, you don't like these people very much. Do you? Cause. Nobody's coming to visit them. And she's like, no, no, you'll do it because you like them. And finally, one day I, she came to me with another list and yet another list. And I, I said, what part of, I can't do this. I, it's not that I won't, I can't. And I said, I don't think you want me telling anyone how I'm feeling about the church right now. Like, I don't think that's the. Point of visiting teaching. Cause I don't have good things to say right now. So perhaps I'm not your best choice. And so finally she finally, I was very aggressive and said, you know, not happening. And she finally let me stop being a visiting teacher on her roles. And my daughter graduated from high school. And that was the last time that I willingly participated in church. I started to, I didn't know quite how to like remove my garments, like, because I'd been wearing them for so many years and I didn't know how to let that part of my, you know, it's that it's part becomes a part of who you are. And so

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 30:37

it's, it's hard, right? You're like, wait, I've been wearing these for a really long

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 30:42

yeah, And I, didn't know any

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 30:43

how, how do I go to Walmart and buy different underwear?

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 30:47

It's true. And, and so I, I started to kind of panic about it. And then I was really worried about disappointing my mother and my best friend, cause they're very, very active. And my best friend actually came to visit and I sat her down and I said, you know, I said, I need to tell you, I really, I don't want to wear these anymore. Like it bothers me that I'm wearing them. I'd really like to not, but I don't want to disappoint you. And her words were, I'm. surprised it took you so long and she was so supportive. Oh, she's the best. She was so supportive she helped me, you know, take care of them in the way that I felt like, because I still have that connection where, you know, there's like these. I don't know the right words, the traditional way of taking care of used garments.

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 31:44

Yeah. You're gonna cut, cut the nipple marks

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 31:46

yeah, so she, she took care of all of the traditional things for me, so I didn't have to. And, and then, you know, I went and I bought some cute undies, right. And then when I finally talked to my mom, but I had to tell her my best friend first, she's kind of my other part. She's my other half. She's my soul. And that she accepted me and she still loved me. And she knew, and she said, you know, she says, it hurts my heart that leaving the church is what's made you so happy. But I see that you are happy for the first time in the 30 years we've been friends, like truly happy. And she says, it's sad that leaving the church is what is making you happy, but she didn't care cause I'm happy. Does that make sense? And so she was, she was loving and supportive. And so then I had the courage to talk to my mom. And again, I didn't, shouldn't have had fear. My mom loves me regardless. My mom is, you know, she's in my corner. Every once in a while, my mom and I'll butt heads, but I'm her daughter and You know, and then telling my dad was another story because I was so afraid that I, cause you know, I'm daddy's little girl. And he also was very supportive and very loving to the very day that he passed away. Sorry, I didn't mean to go there, but anyway, so

brad_3_08-18-2024_143426: 33:13

dads always have a special place for their little girls.

sandy_3_08-18-2024_143428: 33:16

yeah. And, and so it was great to know that my parents still loved and supported me. And so. I was able to just step away and just go, you know, I'm better not going. And because it was making me so crazy, it was making me angry. And so I've kind of just gotten to the point now where I'm, I'm so happy. So after all of those uglies, and then I was a single mom for, let's see, from 2009. Until 2015 and in 2015, a friend of mine had to teach a, a repelling class in St. George. And he's like, I don't want to drive by myself. Please just ride with me. And I'm like, dude, I don't dangle from ropes.