Ep. 76 - Responsibility & Remorse

Join this week's episode of the Mormon to Medium podcast as Nannette and Brad delve into a personal and emotional journey involving a parole hearing for the woman connected to the tragic murder of Nann's husband Cory. Nanette opens up about the challenges and emotions faced during this process, shedding light on themes of responsibility, remorse, and the pursuit of justice. This episode touches on the complexities of grief, healing, and the harsh realities of the legal system, while also offering hope and support for those going through similar experiences.

Transcript

Brad: 0:00

I think that today we have a lot to catch up on

Nannette: 0:05

Yeah. The tornado.

Brad: 0:08

The tornado came it wasn't an actual tornado, but it felt like one for a little while Welcome to this week's episode of Mormon to medium podcast. I'm Brad and I'm here with my beautiful co host Nanette

Nannette: 0:21

Hi guys. So glad to be back. Yeah, we had, we had a rough couple of weeks and we'll get into that in just a minute. Welcome to the Mormon to medium podcast, where we'll talk about spirituality, the paranormal religion, and my journey going from Mormon to medium. I'm Nanette Wride. Thanks for listening. Now let's go have some fun. Yeah,

Brad: 1:19

up which was going to take out some of our time and we actually put a little teaser up that we would cover what happened in the parole hearing when we came back. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Are you okay to talk about that?

Nannette: 1:33

I think I'm okay. I'll try to be okay.

Brad: 1:38

Well, if, if you're not just raise your

Nannette: 1:40

And we can change the subject, right?

Brad: 1:42

exactly. It's like the dentist's office where you just lift your hand up and, go, okay, I can feel that.

Nannette: 1:48

Yeah. So, um, the day before we were leaving to go on a cruise with some friends, um, in the mail, I got a notification that there was going to be a parole hearing for the girl that was involved in the murder of Corey. So, honestly, it affected my cruise. It was in my head. Like, how, how are we up for Pearl already? She's involved in killing a police officer and trying to kill another police officer. So we just did a plea deal two years ago. Because what happened is during the murder trial, she got 30 years to life, um, and so she's not supposed to be getting out, right? But then the jury instructions from the judge to the jury, there was a certain word that was said. And so all the appeals went forward and the Utah Supreme Court overturned the murder trial. And so we got to the point where, We were going to do a plea deal with her. So that was two years ago. We did a plea deal. And because of COVID, we just did over zoom. We were actually in Mexico at the time. And, um, she ended up getting to be serving like four more years in addition to, um, so basically she'll serve 14 years in prison. By the time she is supposed to come up for parole, but now we're two years later and she's up for parole. So I was kind of like, where's the justice in that type of thing? I really bothered me before we even got to the parole hearing. So I already was kind of bugged.

Brad: 3:19

the justice in that type of thing? It really bothered me before we even got to the Pearl hearing. So, I already was kind of bugged. You know, there wasn't a lot more clarity that came with that. There was a victim's advocate, uh, who was supposed to meet us at the hearing, but we didn't end up even

Nannette: 3:43

the victims, no, the victims advocate ended up being sick and didn't make it to the hearing

Brad: 3:50

hearing. Ah. I wondered what happened. You never told me that.

Nannette: 3:53

well, I just found out after the hearing when she called to let me know the, what the verdict was from the board. So she's like, Oh, and by the way, I'm sorry I didn't show up. I was actually really sick. I was like, Oh, I'm like, cause we watched for you and you never showed up. And didn't reach out. So she says they were supposed to let you know that I was sick and that I was sorry I couldn't make it. And she's apparently she's the only one that has this position in the state of Utah that is an advocate, um, between, um, the person in prison and the, The victims. And so she's the only one that kind of, she has a special job, I guess. She kind of coordinates things. Um, and she's supposed to be in the loop of everything to let people know, but since it's still a new position, because she's only had it for two years, um, you know, Sometimes some of the information doesn't trickle down. Right. So we got the letter and she should have been let know before we caught the letter so that she could have told us before we got the letter in the mail. So there was, there's a lack of completing circles and it's not her fault. It's just, you know, getting people getting used to processes, I

Brad: 5:04

makes so much more sense. No, I had no idea. You hadn't told me that, you know, she was sick or any of these other things had come into play. So thanks for sharing that.

Nannette: 5:13

Yeah. So, um, yeah, so she wasn't there. So what we did, Brad and I, um, took work off for two days because we had to be, um, in the boardroom at the prison, Utah state prison up by Salt Lake airport, um, by 9 a. m. then that morning. And we live in the opposite end of the state. So we had to drive the six hours to get there. Um, we stayed in a hotel and then got ready.

Brad: 5:37

Lake is, it's like

Nannette: 5:40

Well, Salt Lake is.

Brad: 5:42

we

Nannette: 5:43

It's like five hours and then we stopped to pee 35 times because you have a small bladder.

Brad: 5:48

works really well. But

Nannette: 5:50

It works really well.

Brad: 5:51

out good because we

Nannette: 5:54

But yeah, it worked out good because we got to take Kylie with us. That's my daughter. And, um, and, um, When we got there, Corey's mom was there and his two sisters were there. You know, the shocking thing is, is we have this brand new prison. So they, they had this old prison and they built this new prison and you'd think that they would update things and make them more safe and more cool. And now, um, it was kind of shocking because there were no towers, you know, guard towers for people to look. There was just, there were just fences, lots of fences, like five fences that people would have to get through to escape. Um, it was just weird. I didn't feel like that the officers are safe just as we were going in through the checkpoints. Um, it just felt weird, but the officers were really super nice. Yeah.

Brad: 6:43

Yeah, you know, the correctional staff does a great job there and, you know, obviously they have their challenges, right? I

Nannette: 6:50

in a

Brad: 6:51

that they are, uh, they're, they've come a long way and they're, they're dealing with those challenges the best they can. I mean, you know, when you're given a brand new facility, you make do with what you've got and you know, they're going to have that facility for a while. So, hopefully they can. Get all of the bugs ironed out and taken care of. Well,

Nannette: 7:23

you have to have, I don't think you take off your shoes in the TSA scanners. Do you?

Brad: 7:28

not if you're pre check, but otherwise, yes, you

Nannette: 7:30

Okay. Yeah. So we were, you'd have to stand in that and then it like scans you to make sure that, you know, you're safe to be let into the prison. Like that's a problem, but, um, that was a little intimidating and I was wearing a pair of open.

Brad: 7:44

toe

Nannette: 7:45

heels. And, um, they didn't want to let me in because I had these open toe heels and I'm like, I live in St. George. They're like, well, you can't, you can't wear those in here.

Brad: 7:53

sure

Nannette: 7:55

pretty sure Brad was going to jump through over the counter and strangle somebody because they weren't going to let me in.

Brad: 8:02

through over the counter

Nannette: 8:08

Yeah, it was

Brad: 8:10

strangled by somebody.

Nannette: 8:17

Leases. Mm-Hmm.

Brad: 8:19

They need to work on that a little bit because as we walked in, they had all of the inmates who were being released that day sitting in the lobby of this entry area where we first walked in. It was really uncomfortable. You know, I know Nan did not feel safe because there were all of these inmates sitting in there just staring at us.

Nannette: 8:38

Well, you have to remember too, you know, I feel everything. I feel everybody, and. Um, the very same doors that we're supposed to walk through, these inmates are walking out of, and they're within feet of us and there's nothing, I don't know what they're in there for. You know what I mean? I don't know if they're unhinged or fine or whatever. I don't know. It just didn't feel super safe. You know, um, I was happy for them to be able to get out all in the same breath, but it was like, it was intimidating as hell, like, um, that, that is not a place that I would highly recommend anyone visiting.

Brad: 9:13

But

Nannette: 9:13

Um, when they finally took us in, we had to go through a couple more gates that were kind of like checkpoints. Um, they, an officer was there and we just had to wait for them to click it open for us to go through. And then another one that we had to wait for them to click it through. These were outside. And then we went through. And they were going to put us in this room as we went through a door in this building off to the left. There was a small holding room before you get into the boardroom. But then I saw the girl who was involved in Corey's murder. I saw her dad. Sitting there. His name is Jerry. And, um, I hadn't made friends with Jerry and his mom during the murder trial because, um, to me, there just wasn't any

Brad: 9:55

winners. Exactly.

Nannette: 9:57

Exactly. Exactly. So, um, they didn't want me to go talk to him, but being Nan, I still did. I kind of just did my own thing and went over and talked to him because, um, I figured he had been there to visit her several times and I kind of wanted to know his take on things and things that are different in their life, what their home life is like if she gets let out, that kind of stuff. And, um, he had told me that she, she was really, really sorry and that she wanted to be able to be let out and go home and she would live with him and that the mother was out of the picture, which is really great. Um, Um, because the guy that killed Corey probably wouldn't be in their life if it hadn't been for her. Um, so, so that gave me a little bit of hope, but he, he told me, he's like, ultimately Nan, it rests on you whether she gets out or not. I'm like, no, it ultimately rests on her and her choices and her growth. It has nothing to do with me, but, um, I, I would like to see her be able to be successful when she does get out. That's really where my heart's at, but, um, in the same breath, I still want justice to be. To

Brad: 11:02

want you had a couple of big concepts that were paramount to you If she got out, can you share those concepts?

Nannette: 11:11

Absolutely. Um, so responsibility and remorse. I felt like she needed to be responsible for the choices that she made to end up where she was and to be remorseful, um, to be truly, truly sorry and, and want to do better and be a better person. And, um, I wished I could say that I saw that, um, part of me wishes, part of me is like, you know, she needs to stay in here long enough for, for that to happen. Um,

Brad: 11:44

ever really taken responsibility, right? It's always been, well, I had to do this because he made me do this.

Nannette: 11:50

well, she always blamed it on, you know, domestic violence and being in, um, a bad home or by being in this, um,

Brad: 11:57

relationship and

Nannette: 11:58

Abusive relationship and she was afraid and it was his fault and all these things. And I was able to, I think I articulated how I felt and how Corey feels and felt.

Brad: 12:11

felt,

Nannette: 12:12

Um, like if she could have even. Told Corey she wasn't okay. He would have died fighting for her instead of not having any idea and being ambushed. So, um, that's a responsibility. She needs to claim and not blame someone else for. And the interesting thing is, is when we walked into the boardroom, she was sitting there and she's not allowed. Her back is to us. So she's looking at the board members where they're going to be sitting, but not at the victims. And then there's like a TV screen. If people want to zoom in, um, they can be seen or not seen or whatever, but she's never seen on a screen. And um, she's not able to look at us or stare us down or make us feel uncomfortable or anything like that. But when I sat behind her, I was a little bit shocked because she's. She's completely different than the person that went in and I, and I had to ask, is that her? Because she has, she she's probably gained probably a hundred pounds easy.

Brad: 13:12

And, um, oh, she's very butch.

Nannette: 13:13

she's shaved all of her hair off except for just this line of hair. And she's got curly hair like me. So. Um, and she was very feminine, but she is not when she spoke, her voice was really low. When the board member came in, he was like, well, do you go by he and him or, um, how would you like me to address you? And she said, just by my name is fine or whatever you want to use. And I was just like, what? Like, so, so now the, the taxpayers get to pay for, um, hormone changes because they're bored in there. And, but the thing is, is number one, that's life threatening. Number two, um, she, when she gets out, she can't pay for that. Um, who's, who's going to pay for it then? You know, like why, why open that? And are you going to go put her into the men's facility now? Because she wants to be a guy like I had so many, conflicting feelings on top of being terrified and shaking and all the things. So

Brad: 14:08

I

Nannette: 14:08

completely shocked to see that. Um, and I don't understand it. I don't, I still just, I just don't get it because you know, she should be doing her time.

Brad: 14:18

Do you think the reason you had that type of reaction is because you're looking at it going, Hey, this is supposed to be a place where you're doing your penance, your punishment for the crimes that you committed. Yet you are being given these opportunities. Is that why

Nannette: 14:36

yes, yes. And no, you know how we just talked about her, um, not taking responsibility. Um, well, if she's not Megan, how's she going to take responsibility? If she's a dude, she's this butch dude. She doesn't have to take responsibility for the shit she

Brad: 14:49

That's a really good point. So she gets to essentially leave under a new alias.

Nannette: 14:55

Exactly. Instead of being herself and claiming responsibility and have remorse for the things that she chose to do

Brad: 15:02

I hadn't really even thought about that,

Nannette: 15:04

that, that really upset

Brad: 15:05

She gets to walk away from it with being someone else. Yeah, being someone else without even looking back. Yeah. Huh.

Nannette: 15:12

And then as the parole hearing went on, she, she has some, um, some things that she's done wrong in prison. She hasn't. Obeyed correctional officers and had to, she's gotten in trouble a couple of times because she doesn't, um, respect them. And I have a problem with that. Cause if you're not going to do in prison, are you going to do it out of prison? Probably not. And that's scary because someone like that can be influenced by any outside source, you know, who's to say that she's not going to get wrapped up in really bad people and just go along with the pack, you know, like she did with the first guy. Um, just because she wants to be loved type of thing and, and I realized that, I mean, she came from the home life. She did. She just wanted to be loved, but she picked a really shitty person to love her who didn't love her. But whatever.

Brad: 15:59

Well, and apparently, you know, reading some of the court transcript stuff, he had girls all over. So, it wasn't just her.

Nannette: 16:07

Yes, exactly. He was just using her because her mom would let him stay at their house

Brad: 16:12

Yeah. It's really, it's really a sad situation. It's

Nannette: 16:15

it is,

Brad: 16:15

I mean, the, the whole, the whole setup for what happened is tragic. It doesn't matter how you look at it. No, yeah,

Nannette: 16:24

Like I said, there, there are no winners here, including her, but ultimately, you know, All of the things that she blames for her choices, you know, domestic violence, okay, I've had that and I didn't kill anyone, you know, I've been abused. Oh, well, so Vianney didn't kill anyone. How many people out there, you know, have been in bad relationships or have been abused or have come from an abusive home? and haven't killed an officer. Um, those are choices. Those are actual choices. And throughout all the dash cam videos throughout the murder trial, she had so many chances that she could have run towards a police officer and gotten away from him and been scoffery, but she didn't. She chose to hang in there till the very end and you know, like Bonnie and Clyde. So I don't know if it was a romantic thing for her or what, but. Really stupid choices.

Brad: 17:20

Yeah, poor choices, but ultimately in the end, the parole board made the decision that she was not ready to be released and they put her up for a new hearing in a year from now.

Nannette: 17:32

So in December of next year, yeah. And she'll have a new hearing. It's so Merry Christmas to us next year. And, uh, but what I did like is she has to have a mental health evaluation, which yay, um, she absolutely needs that. And I hope that she gets the help that she needs. So, um, yeah, so that's why we went off air. I've been processing a lot, a lot. glad to have it behind us. Until next year.

Brad: 17:59

and I think having been through it already, Nan, it's going to be a lot easier for you. I mean, you will still get some of that rebound and, and I think that's something that really needs to be talked about because a lot of folks go, well, shit, Nan, you're 10 years out. You know, this should be easy for you, right? But it's not always easy, is it?

Nannette: 18:18

No, no, not at all, especially when it's a murder is not easy at all. Um, it's really, really hard and it's like, it's a bandaid rip off big time. Um, and as many of you know that have lost a loved one, um, whether it's tragically or naturally or however you've lost a loved one, um, You learn how to grieve and you learn how to process it differently and never, ever goes away. It doesn't go away. You don't get over it. You know, um, you just learn to live with it and it walks beside you and your loved one is right there beside you. And, and I hope that. Um, our program helps bring some light to that, um, that your loved ones are right there and there is hope in that. I can tell you, I sure felt Corey really close through this whole parole hearing stuff. Really close.

Brad: 19:10

close. Yeah, yeah, there was no doubt at all that he was there.

Nannette: 19:14

Yeah. Okay. Can we change the subject?

Brad: 19:17

Yep, Nan's raising her hand. It's time to talk about something different.

Nannette: 19:22

Yes.

Brad: 19:22

Nan, with these feelings, there's balance for that, right? That can help you.

Nannette: 19:27

There's a balance for everything. Yeah. Yeah. Many balances probably for this over and over and over probably for the rest of my life.

Brad: 19:35

Well, and that's kind of the thing. It's not a magic, you know, bullet. It doesn't just kill it all and take it away. It's something that is very much involved in self healing, right?

Nannette: 19:48

Exactly. And that's the kind of practice that I have. It's, you know, it's a self responsibility model of healing. You're responsible for your own health and processing that. And the emotions that I'm processing when it comes to, um, Corey's death and all of that, they're going to bubble up probably for the rest of my life, you know, different things. Cause there's no wrong way to do grief and I'm going to grieve him and I'm just going to allow myself to do that. You know, um, I've gone from angry to numb to. I want to punish somebody to be feeling betrayed and forgotten, you know, all of those things and, um, kind of really sitting in my own shit, you know, but you have to process that. And then when you're done, you stand up, get a balance and then walk away and you turn that emotion from a 10 down to like a two and. That's how you walk away. You shake it off body, mind, and soul. And then it's like, okay, until the next time,

Brad: 20:45

Yeah, and then when it bubbles up again, then you work on it again and, and it's okay. It's a continual

Nannette: 20:50

it goes.

Brad: 20:51

Yeah. That's, that's, uh, that's life. It's okay. Yeah, there might be, Nan, thank you for being brave and talking about that again. And, and, you know, I think it's very important to note that Nan had the opportunity to give a brief testimony, or a statement rather, to the parole board and she did a fantastic job representing Corey because obviously he couldn't represent himself and couldn't share his thoughts. She did a wonderful job bringing him through and, and expressing. for him what he couldn't.

Nannette: 21:35

Thank you.

Brad: 21:36

Yeah. Thank you. So.

Nannette: 21:37

it was my prayer to be able to do that. Um,

Brad: 21:40

because I, because I

Nannette: 21:42

I, because I feel him and I can channel him. I hoped that that's what would happen. And I know, I know that when I sat down to start to speak, I was this mess and I was shaking and I started to cry, but then all of a sudden it went away and I don't remember anything I really said, but I think that's when he moved in and spoke his own truth. And, um, I know that Corey is kind, and I, but I also know that there has to be justice and balance, and um, for her to take responsibility is a big deal, and for her to have remorse is even bigger.

Brad: 22:16

even bigger. Yep. Absolutely. Well, and I think she's got another year to work on that. So, hopefully she can take some, uh, self accountability to her own heart and start working on her issues. Yes. And, Yeah. That's

Nannette: 22:43

to have it, you know, having to have to deal with her, you

Brad: 22:47

the hard thing about a trial and a hearing and a sentencing and all of that is it just puts it right back in front of you. So, You know, and I think it's not about

Nannette: 22:57

facing it,

Brad: 22:58

running away from it or not facing it. It's about having some closure. And I think that's going to be the big thing is to have some closure. Exactly. And speaking of closure, it's about time to close up this

Nannette: 23:08

this episode. Would

Brad: 23:09

Do you have some final words you'd like to share?

Nannette: 23:11

share? Yeah, I do. Um, you know, when it comes to grief, whether, no matter what kind of grief it is, just realize there's not a wrong way to grieve. Let yourself feel what you need to feel and remember. If you can feel it, you can heal it. And there's a balance for that.

Brad: 23:29

there is. Thank you so much, Nan. And thank you so much everybody for listening and joining in week after week. We appreciate it so very much. We hope that you have a wonderful week and we'll see you.

Nannette: 23:42

on the other side of the veil.